Curse

Stockholm · Jul 24, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

How many people dont hang out in towns and are out question/missions?

How many people are in the middle of a battle (RA/TA/HA/AB)?

How many guilds do you see GvGing (outsides the top ranked ones on observer mode) ?

How many guilds do you see doing scrimmage?

How many people are afk in their guild hall?

District counting is not a good way to sample the number of a type of player in the game.

If the PvP player base is that big why are A-net and a lot of ppl trying so hard to steer more ppl in to PvP?
If PvP is so big why is the Pvp oriented areas in Pve so empty, they should attract some of all those PvP players.
I think that the Pvp base is a hardcore group of ppl that stays pretty much the same while the PvE part is more fluid, so the PvE base is actually bigger but not as active as the Pvp base.

QuietWanderer · Jul 24, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

How many people dont hang out in towns and are out question/missions?

How many people are in the middle of a battle (RA/TA/HA/AB)?

How many guilds do you see GvGing (outsides the top ranked ones on observer mode) ?

How many guilds do you see doing scrimmage?

How many people are afk in their guild hall?

District counting is not a good way to sample the number of a type of player in the game.

You don't honestly believe that there are more PvP'ers than there are PvE'ers do you? If that were the case, there would be a lot more people with rank and gladiator titles rolling around. I'd venture a guess that there are more FOW/UW farmers alone than there are PvP'ers...

Rent · Jul 24, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Just check out the lore forum on this site- there are threads upon threads filled with questions about the game's lore, but nobody seems to be able to come up with answers. These lore-peeps have "theories" and "ideas," but in reality, the questions were never answered in-game.

Well no shit? Of course they don't just hand you a silver platter with all the answers on it; how much fun would that be?

Quote:

Economy also contributes to the fluidity of an MMO. World of Warcraft has professions, which allow people to create wares that they can sell for money. Guild Wars has no such non-combat capabilities. If you want money, you'll fight for drops. It's an okay way to go, but it's narrow-minded, beacuse you don't allow the community to do anything other than fight. A lot of times, that's all people want to do, but other times, the extra non-combat stuff to do is fun. How many hours have you spent just sitting around in the Guild Hall? And to all the Ale Hounds out there, how much time do you spend doing non-combat stuff? MMO's don't have to be all about combat.

I, for one, am in this case rather glad that GW isn't an MMO. I play it specifically for that reason.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 24, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

1. It's pretty damn arrogant to say it's a bad business structure just because YOU didnt like a certain aspect of the game. Plenty of people love it.

2. Just because one thing isnt as popular as another thing (GW vs. Wow) does NOT mean that the less popular entity is not successful.

3. The Duplicate skills are NOT there because ANET lacked creativity or whatever crap you people are spouting. They are there so people can have non echoed duplicate skills. It adds some diversity even thought they're clones. If you dont like the duplicate skills then dont freaking use them.

lyra_song · Jul 24, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietWanderer

You don't honestly believe that there are more PvP'ers than there are PvE'ers do you? If that were the case, there would be a lot more people with rank and gladiator titles rolling around. I'd venture a guess that there are more FOW/UW farmers alone than there are PvP'ers...

I wonder where in my post did i say that "Theres more PvPers than PvErs"...

Hmn...nope...no where. Nope. Didn't say it.

All im disputing is that district counting is not accurate for counting the number of players mainly for the number of factors i pointed out.

Let's also not forget that a good number of PVPers use PVE chars and they could be contributing to that "number of pve zones", when in fact they are PvPers.

Kuja · Jul 24, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

nah, OP is nearly 100% correct. Anet only pays attention to PvP and will people will eventually notice the blandness of no new good PvE content

Kaldor Meshekal · Jul 24, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I think they are working on some good PvE for Nightfall....mainly due to the story build up. They didn't bother with that for Factions, but are (I assume this is what the Chaos creatures are all about) for Nightfall.

The only thing I'd say Anet needs to change in future chapters is PvP....it sucks for new people. Might just be my bad luck but the majority of people in Hero's Ascent are...well......of the "Not rank3 yet lol nub go home" mentality (except of course, spell most it wrong, and add more numbers replacing letters to further deteriate the English language).

Big_L · Jul 24, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

yea know i was the very guy who gave the idea that there should be schools for players to learn the game.

anet at the time did even think of it.

but then they came up with pre-searing.

they used my idea and improve on it. In fact I remeber people debating on my topic LOL

the beta days were fun!!

I get headaches too when I read this stuff...

on topic: PVE got a new game. If you wanna complain that its not enough, fine, but dont make it into a pve vs pvp issue. If all you play is pve, you have no perspective on what factions added as far as pve vs pvp.
WTB: Guild Wars: Nightfall, hold the pvesauce please.

Stockholm · Jul 24, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Even without PvE, the Guild Wars PvP system is very balanced and competitive enough to survive as a PvP only game

Sponsorships and corporate marketing can support GW. PvP servers dont require as much load as PvE/PvP servers combined.

This is where you are wrong, as stated in earlyer posts the PvP base would not be big enough to financially make GW vieable as a PvP only game.
As far as the servers, they are NC-Softs servers and are there allready. And corporate sponsors to run a game with the employee costs, you must be joking. Sponsorships might be able to cover event costs like the PvP tournament comming up but no way will they be able to get sponsors to cover the development costs of any further expansions, since PvP only don't need any new stand alone chapters.

SolidShadow · Jul 24, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

if guildwars was pvp only no one was playing it.

You can ask all players who have more then 3000hours ingame what they play most. 3000hours pvping gets bored, always the same story finding guilds joining partys waiting 1hour before you enter some descent battle. Cant think of that should be getting bored pretty quick.

Thats why a game like this needs a pve factor where you can waste your extra time in when your to bored to start your next match.

And people who play alot buy next episodes so you dont want to make them stop right after they bought it. pve and pvp belong to eachother.

Gli · Jul 24, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Kurt didn't get the memo that guildwars is a competitive online game, not a pve grindfest.

ps: if you want pve grindage I highly recommend silkroad or WoW.

You and your fellow PvE detractors have it all backwards. There's always plenty of posts like this on any PvE thread, even when the topic isn't PvE vs PvP. Clever (and very similar, are you guys in a society, do you have a secret handshake?) catchphrases, no content. The truth of the matter is, the OP isn't looking for 'pve grindage'. That's what we already got with Factions. He (and I) want something better. We want better PvE, we want the game to take steps forward, not backward. And you better swallow your condescending attitudes and hope we get it, or this game will peter out and die. You don't want people to go to 'silkroad or WoW'. You want them to stick around and BUY this game, so you can play your precious PvP game and be smarmy about it on internet forums.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 24, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

The truth of the matter is, the OP isn't looking for 'pve grindage'. That's what we already got with Factions. He (and I) want something better. We want better PvE, we want the game to take steps forward, not backward.

Oh yeah? Then why did the OP state in the very first post that GW should have content like WoW? And that WoW has better content? If he isnt asking for PVE grind then why does he keep referring to WoW as the model PVE game? Dont tell me that WoW isnt grind.

LoKi Foxfire · Jul 24, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I agree with this post a lot. It seems the PvE content is pretty lackluster and either too easy or short for a price tag of $50. I'm also dissappointed by the addition of grind to the game despite A-Net originally touting this game as grind-free. I've farmed over 600,000 Luxon faction for my alliance and my only tangible award aside from the massive waste of my time is a title that says I play too much. At least they added a small reward for completing the game that didn't involve farming instanced creatures. The game is still too easy in PvE and there are no real areas that are really neccessary other than to delay the progress of people through the campaign (which didn't work, I henched the entire campaign in a couple of hours) God forbid they actually add any sort of high-end raid content like EQ, WoW, and practically every successful MMORPG has.

I'm also annoyed that they're charging us full cost for a much smaller "brand new and independent" campaign while not adding any of the features that WoW came with as soon as it shipped. Auction houses, trade areas, GROUPING TOOLS, and other things...

I wonder if I'm the only one who feels that most of the simpler requests by the community are being ignored because their development team is constantly busy churning out more lackluster "Chapters"?

Gli · Jul 24, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Oh yeah? Then why did the OP state in the very first post that GW should have content like WoW? And that WoW has better content? If he isnt asking for PVE grind then why does he keep referring to WoW as the model PVE game? Dont tell me that WoW isnt grind.

You're missing the point by a few miles. Sure, WoW is 'grind', but it's not the content, it's the playing style. The levelling to 60 (or what is it now?), the preposterous amounts of time looking for better stuff. That's grind. Not the content.

If ever a game does turn up that has a playing style similar to GW's, with content equal to WoW's, I'd be over there the minute it hit the stores. I'd pay $25/month for it too.

Edit: Unless that new game looks and feels like WoW. Can't stand the saturday morning cartoon style.

Mister_Smiley · Jul 24, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I've been playing Guildwars over a year now and all i play is PVE basicly, i do some pvp here and their. I love the PVE and it dosn't get boreding to me. Yes i've beaten Guildwars proph and factions with 2 characters. But it keeps me going. I use to play Diablo 2 all the time, but then i got Guildwars and i was addicted total to it, i blew Diablo 2 away. Guildwars is so fun, their is so much stuff i could lose my mind just trying to find everything and killing everything. As for Nightfall, i beleive that it will most likey have about the same or more content then factions. As for the storyline, i hope that its better, but i really don't know. As for the monster levels and such, i love it. I will keep buying the add-on's till they don't make anymore or i have a full time job.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 24, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You're missing the point by a few miles. Sure, WoW is 'grind', but it's not the content, it's the playing style. The levelling to 60 (or what is it now?), the preposterous amounts of time looking for better stuff. That's grind. Not the content.

If ever a game does turn up that has a playing style similar to GW's, with content equal to WoW's, I'd be over there the minute it hit the stores. I'd pay $25/month for it too.

Edit: Unless that new game looks and feels like WoW. Can't stand the saturday morning cartoon style.

No Im not missing the point. You think there's actually better content in WoW. Well that's a matter of perception. Like you said, it's playstyle. If you're more a grind based player, of course you'd say WoW had better content.

Explain to me, and I'm being serious here, what "superiour" content WoW has that would make GW better. I'm sure there are a few things that GW can "borrow" but WoW could also "borrow" from GW as well. There are no perfect games out there.

My whole beef was with the OP's remark of ANET doing bad business strictly because he didnt like the content. That's not bad business, that's his opinion of the game. Nothing more.

pork soldier · Jul 24, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You and your fellow PvE detractors have it all backwards.

I'm not a pve detractor, I like it a lot. The point of guildwars is team coordination, not gimme missions that uncoordinated groups can steamroll or areas that players can solo grind (though you can solo or duo grind if you're smart). In that sense I think the PvE in factions is awesome, the environments are varied and there are plenty of things to bash or light on fire. I honestly think most players have no idea how to play this game and that's why people hate the pve play so much.

Pve in guildwars isn't designed for you to spend months of your life playing one type of character all the time (this isn't really a character evolution game) - you play to cap your skills then you go figure out what you can do with those skills and the skills your friends have. The real fun of the game is combining the strengths of different classes into an effective group, there are endless combinations. Once you're done playing with one type of character roll another, when you run out of slots delete the character you play the least and keep going.

If you get bored of the challenge afforded by the npcs you might want to try your skills against other players, they're doing the same thing you are so the challenge always changes. I can see not liking to be challenged in this way, or not liking the trash talking that goes along with playing other people, or not liking losing, so pvp isn't for everyone.

That said there is a reason for not making guildwars more like WoW - in WoW you grind for ever better equipment so that you can more effectively splat people and npcs. If you're going to be competitive in WoW pvp you need to either spend a boatload of time grinding for gear or you need to spend IRL cash on ebay to aquire it the easy way. In any event there's a pretty hefty barrier to entry in terms of either time or money, and if you don't spend one or the other you're going to spend most of your playtime getting ganked and corpse camped.

In guildwars the barrier to competitive play is considerably lower, as soon as you've got one solid skill bar and a few runes unlocked you can easily pvp your way into further unlocks, or you can play the pve game and unlock things the long way. GW is designed to be accessible to casual players who are turned off by the time or money commitment that WoW requires. You can login for an hour and play through two missions, or you can win a few matches in the team arena, you can go on a fissure/underworld run, you can do a couple of GvG battles or you can run with a tombs group for a bit. There are a lot of things available that you can complete in an hour or two.

Here's the problem with making GW more WoW like - say you make ever better equipment available, everyone grinds to aquire it so that they have an advantage. Then everyone else has to grind to obtain the same advantage, otherwise the grinders dominate. So you've just stopped 95% of the playerbase from ever having a competitive chance and you've effectively killed off any hope of having fair fights that are won based on player skill and not on time played.

pork soldier · Jul 24, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

One last thing, exactly what sort of "content like wow" do you guys want anyway? WoW has a lot of content, are you asking for more art assets, more weapon and armor skins, more skills, more "please fedex this thing to this guy then collect 10 whatsits and fedex them to this other guy" quests, or what?

Be reasonable, WoW charges per month, we're not going to get the same quantity of updates for less money here.

Gli · Jul 24, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

No Im not missing the point. You think there's actually better content in WoW. Well that's a matter of perception. Like you said, it's playstyle. If you're more a grind based player, of course you'd say WoW had better content.

You're definitely missing the point. You're assuming things about the OP that are nowhere to be inferred from what he posted. You're assuming he wants to 'grind'. Where did you read that in his post? I didn't see that. You make something up and then you shoot it down. Missing the point 101. I've no idea about the quality of WoW's content, I've never played it. I was referring to the amount. More stuff to explore, places to go, non-linear gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Explain to me, and I'm being serious here, what "superiour" content WoW has that would make GW better. I'm sure there are a few things that GW can "borrow" but WoW could also "borrow" from GW as well. There are no perfect games out there.

Ask someone who played WoW. I'm not going to argue a point I never tried to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

My whole beef was with the OP's remark of ANET doing bad business strictly because he didnt like the content. That's not bad business, that's his opinion of the game. Nothing more.

That's not what you posted in the first message you adressed to me.

Saix The Spartan · Jul 24, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

If they start charging a monthly fee, bye bye GW.